Developers, Community, Progress

Gary Kramlich grim at
Wed Apr 30 20:26:17 EDT 2008

MonoApe wrote:
> Gary Kramlich wrote:
>> The users contribute?
> That explains part of the problem.  Yes, users contribute.  Not always
> with lines of code, but they contribute ideas, bug reports,
> encouragement, criticism and a sounding board for design decisions.

So you've contributed what here?  Bringing the issue to our attention?
I see no ideas for how to improve the situation, aside from you implying
that we need to just roll it back.  That's not productive and won't
happen.  Even though I myself initially found the new behavior annoying,
I've grown my more accustomed to it over time.

>> If Pidgin we would be making money off of it, which it would then most
>> likely be our primary source of income.
> So, you're saying that if you were drawing income from Pidgin, you'd
> listen to the community?  As you're not, you're entitled to say 'fuck
> you'?  Do you think this attitude increases or decreases the likelihood
> of future financial success?

No I'm saying being able to continue paying ones bills is good enough
motivation to do what others want.  However, just because people are
using their free time to contribute to something they see as worth
while, does not mean they have to listen to anyone.

You're holding us (the developers) up on a platter.  What would you do
if for one reason or another, every single one of the current Pidgin
developers were no longer able to work on Pidgin for one reason or
another?  I'm guessing you would try to coax someone you know that knows
how to program to step in.

As for the future financial success, let me ask you this.  What more do
we, the developers of a program you obviously enjoyed using before the
input auto-sizing change, owe you?  I hate to say it this way, but we're
already giving you an alternative to which you have full control over.
Not just by plugins (and last I checked, none of the commercial im
programs allow hobbyists to write plugins), but by giving you the source
code to change it as well.  So what if you don't know how to code.  Take
some time and maybe look at it, who knows, you might actually be able to
understand it, and fix the problems you see with it.  But to sit there
and bark orders at us when we've already given plenty (in my opinion),
and you've given us nothing (ideas to fix the problem, etc), is just

>> listen to your own advice and try to be rational.
> No idea what you're referring to.
>> Why should we listen to you when you're looking down your nose at us,
>> contradicting the very things you're calling us out on.
> Again, no idea what you mean here.  I've called out a design decision
> and subsequent reaction by devs that many people have been very unhappy
> with.  There's no contradiction on my part or 'looking down my nose'
> (whatever that means in this context).

You're looking down your nose because you've claimed we're ignoring you,
damaging our own community, and insulted us.  You've taken it upon
yourself to only show one side of this issue, hiding everything you and
the rest of the users are doing and only pointing out what the
developers are doing.  Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but to portray a
self serving delusion of the facts, is, in itself, a contradiction.

>> ...shame on you for making me waste the little time I have responding
>> to this email 
> No one forced you to do anything.  You could've ignored me, just as the
> passionate pleas for a UI rollback have been ignored....

And no one forces us to work on Pidgin either right... Oh that's right,
you're trying to systematically force us to change something you don't
agree with, with absolutely nothing to contribute.

Gary Kramlich <grim at>

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