libpurple theme support improvements

Felipe Contreras felipe.contreras at
Mon Jan 19 07:49:23 EST 2009

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Sascha Vogt <FunkyFish at> wrote:
> Hi,
> first of all, I'm reading this ML for about 2 years now and I'm tired of
> these pointless discussions. Note: I'm in no way tied to Pidgin apart
> from posting some answers here and there.
> Felipe Contreras schrieb:
>> Following the ODF example, when Microsoft pushed the OpenXML format
>> they where not 'playing well with others' even though they *allowed*
>> ODF as an _alternative_ format.
> What's your point here? ODF is a file format. You don't "work" on that
> file directly. Instead you use a reader and convert your files into a
> internal or proprietary data model. This reader (or loader) is
> exchangeable (e.g OpenOffice is able to read various file formats). In
> the other direction it's the same, you have various writers which
> produce different file types out of your document.
> As far as I understood this discussion, Pidgin works exactly the same.
> It has an internal mechanism for sound and supports various loaders to
> be compatible to different systems. That's perfectly OK from a design
> point and in no way this is "reinventing" the wheel or does support your
> "not playing well with others"-statement.
> If your point is, that this is "unnecessary", because there /is/ only
> one standard, then say so. But this has absolutely nothing to do with
> not playing well with others.
> As so many posted before: Felipe, this is my last message/discussion
> with you. Every discussion goes the same: You repeat your points over
> and over, not giving new arguments, where others put a lot of effort in
> trying to explain *you* their points. You don't seem to even remotely
> trying to understand them...

Look. It's not difficult.

Definition of collaboration:

Collaboration is a recursive process where two or more people or
organizations work together toward an intersection of common goals —
for example, an intellectual endeavor that is creative in nature—by
sharing knowledge, learning and building consensus. Collaboration does
not require leadership and can sometimes bring better results through
decentralization and egalitarianism. In particular, teams that work
collaboratively can obtain greater resources, recognition and reward
when facing competition for finite resources.

Only one party developed in the design and development of the
libpurple sound theme, therefore it was not a collaborative effort.
Note that we are not talking about internal collaboration between the
pidgin developers/contributors, but external collaboration; among
different parties. It doesn't matter how, as you say, other people
explain and give arguments trying to explain whatever you think they
are trying to explain, it's still not collaborative.

Even if libpurple sound theme was perfect, modular, extensible,
beautiful and lasts for all eternity as a perfect example of how
software should be done without a single bug ever... it still was
developed by a single party, therefore it's not a collaborative

A software might be perfectly fine to one party, it might be
completely wrong for another party, that's why collaborating is
difficult; you need to find a middle ground and build from there. But
the end result is software that is more robust, and probably better
for even more parties. Designing software for a possibly infinite
amount of parties is extremely difficult, that's why standardization
is something most people avoid, and people that try to do it should be

It's good that libpurple's sound theme system is extensible and allows
multiple sound themes, not just libpurple's sound theme. However,
that's being considerate, nothing to do with being collaborative.

I keep repeating my points because people keep arguing the wrong
thing, I never said Pidgin devs are not being considerate in this
matter, I said something completely different, but they don't seem to
be getting the point at all.

My thesis is: Pidgin doesn't collaborate well with other parties.

Can you find out a point in this thread where somebody is showing
arguments against my thesis? Quite the contrary, since even John
Bailey said himself: <quote>If that means we don't "[play] well with
others," then so be it</quote>.

I'll follow your example and don't reply any more unless someone
argues my thesis instead of throwing ad-hominen attacks, and argument
the wrong thesis.

Felipe Contreras

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